[Themaintainers] frameworklessmovement.org

[jan]

Dear all,
Dear Bastien,

What is written on frameworklessmovement makes sense to me on one hand, 
on the other hand I have the feeling that the movement focuses on the 
needs and ideas of very experienced developers.

If people have the skill and discipline to  implement  their custom 
"frameworks" (and all that belongs to it: Tests, documentation…), it 
makes a lot of sense to not use an external one but to tie the code to 
one’s own needs.

However, even if one is such a skilled person or employs them, there can 
be good reasons for or against a framework and these reasons can be 
concerned with technology, collaboration, (de-facto) standards and best 
practices, large and small-scale politics and expected skill, knowledge 
and preferences of people involved and how these people might change.


Jan

PS.: I personally like to use frameworks (since my self-cooked stuff 
would be way worse, I guess) and also have argued for some frameworks to 
be used by the developers I work with arguing the paradigms used in them 
  were easier to deal with for designers and people new to our code in 
contrast to the status quo.


On 01.06.20 15:10, Bastien wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I hope this email finds you well!
> 
> I've discovered and read about https://frameworklessmovement.org
> 
> I find this interesting.  Of course, this opens up the discussion
> rather than closes it, and I see many plausible ways to disagree.
> 
> But, as a Lisp/Clojure developer, it resonates with a lot of other
> discussions in our communities: the accepted "wisdom" in Clojure is
> that frameworks, while useful, are often *too* useful and always
> end up preventing your project to move on (e.g. we don't have a
> killer framework for web applications.)
> 
> That said, the text also seems to make a point *against* libraries
> (as mini-frameworks?) which shows the limit of this argument: even
> in Clojure, we don't discard libraries as well-calibrated ways of
> solving small problems, we praise them.
> 
> In general, I'm happy to see these discussions among developers,
> it shows that maintainance issues are getting more attention.
> 
> All best,
>